Friday, January 4, 2008

Re:

It's hard to feel spoiled when you're cleaning up a mess.  Particularly, this mess (which occurred while I was reading emails about spoiling kids with excess Christmas Gifts) courtesy of Sophia and a handme down nipple I purchased when the girls were infants (that's getting thrown away ASAP!)  But I really have to weigh in on this issue!  I love a great debate, especially in the Bagley email tradition.  So, some of my thoughts:

Gift giving.  It is custom that for some people carries a lot of weight.  For some, it may even be considered their "love language" or how they express love for those around them.   This is certainly the case with my dad as he has always loved giving gifts to his kids.  I didn't realize he was "over doing it" until I grew up, but if Kara was shell shocked in Pine she would have had to have  been hospitalized after a Christmas at my house when I was a kid.  If I gave you a detailed list of the amounts and quantities you'd be appalled and I'd be embarrassed  so sufficeth to say it was typically a big Christmas at the Craig household.

 But somehow it still worked out.  We loved seeing what other people got and not just ourselves.  We opened things slowly and showed them to the group so it was a family affair.   I don't remember a single time when I felt like one of my siblings got a "better" Christmas than me (okay Jean, so only one, but it was 9th grade: dad had some hiccups in his employment and mom bought me only clothes I would have died wearing to school and no one got a particularly awesome Christmas that year.  I mainly felt sad because the clothes made me think in that  typical early teen way that mom doesn't "get me" anymore).  I don't remember ever feeling like I got a "better" Christmas than my friends in my neighborhood (I didn't).  I think I felt grateful and loved, even lucky and hoped that everyone like the gifts I had picked out for them, too.  Maybe those gifts weren't what they would have picked out for themselves, but that's the interesting thing about gift giving, that little bit of mystery & magic.  That little piece of the giver's personality that's there with the gift--like that odd gift from an odd friend that you just love because of their uniqueness even if you can't really see yourself living with the object they've given you, you can still feel loved and appreciated.   I have a child whose love language is most likely gifts.  She doesn't really respond to the hugs and gushing praise that I give her every day (that would be me speaking my own language which she finds really embarassing and uncomfortable) but somehow gifts crack her heart and makes her melt.  If it takes a few extra presents to make my kids heart melt once a year, then why not?

So I totally agree with Kara that you should do Christmas and presents the way that is right for your family (much like parenting styles, there's not just one way that works) and a simple Christmas can work perfectly if done thoughtfully like Kara just described.  And of course I think everything should be done in moderation, living within your means, etc., etc.  But what can I say. . . once a year, it's Christmas!

Now if you'll excuse me I have a very messy toddler and kitchen to clean up!

Much love,

Becky

p.s. I really do know I over do Christmas.  It's in my blood. Maybe we can talk about excess consumerism and consumption in general in the next email chain!

On Dec 31, 2007 2:48 PM, kara bagley <karabagley@gmail.com> wrote:
I have to say I was shell shocked the Christmas of 2003 when we spent Christmas morning in Pine with the Bagley's.  After a Late night Christmas Eve of the parents wrapping the very abundant amount of presents and fretting over presents left back at home and how distraught their child will be, Christmas morning came early.   I guess you could say the kids were excited...everything was ripped open within 5 minutes and not because there wasn't much to open.  There were kids asking for more and counting their presents, comparing with their cousins and asking there parents why didn't I get... and where is...(thing that I asked for)
 
Christmas is as magical as the parents perceive it and that perception easily wears off on children.  If the parents make it all about getting a lot of presents, getting expensive presents and being entertained all day long by their presents then that is going to be what it takes for their kids to feel it was a good Christmas.
 
We had a wonderful Christmas.  The anticipation of the day made it magical.  The kids each got one special present from Santa,  Layne's was a $20 drum set that he banged on for hours while singing "jingle bells" Brik got an aquadoodle mat that he got to express his artistic side.  Stockings had socks, a t-shirt, oranges and a candy cane.  We had breakfast and then had the big event.  Gifts one at a time, recognized who they were from before they were opened, shared with everyone and discussion on how thoughtful it was for that person to get you that present.  Thank you was said and we moved on.  Layne got a exercise ball from me to give to me, he had punched a screwdriver through my old one and was supposed to be earning money to buy me a new one, but it was slow going.  He was so thrilled to be debt free and wanted to open it right away to find out what color it was.  Jarom got him a hand-me-down digital camera that had been sitting at the bottom of a drawer for the past 3 years since we had gotten a new one. Brik got him a pack of games that was 5$, we have been teaching him how to play and it has been educational.  Brik got some toys that were Layne's at two that had been stored in the garage for the past year.  Layne played with them as much as Brik did.  My parents sent some presents and we had a few from friends.  We spent the rest of the day playing, finding a place for our new things, making calls to family, and just relaxing.
 
I think you should do Christmas and presents the way that feels right for you.  There is nothing wrong with a lot of presents, but a simple Chistmas does not make the day lame.  CHristmas day can be just as wonderful even for the kids with just one special gift as long as they are not expecting enough to kill a Guatemalan family of 6.

On Dec 30, 2007 8:06 PM, Errol Bagley <eebagley@hotmail.com> wrote:

Good points. I didn't assume I was right on this subject although I may be. Lets hear more. Dad 




might i say in our defense as parents who bought too much stuff-------


last year we only bought ruby and Ezra one gift from santa, one gift from mom and dad, and one from their grandparents. 
our christmas was very minimal. 
and afterwards it was very lame. there was not much to do-----ruby got a little bored with her gift. and i personally felt that it was less magical. 
when your kids have lots of presents that they are excited about its like going to disneyland. its exciting , and fun and it gives them a lot to do that day.

to get it straight, jason reported that our kids got too much stuff and they were bored---that is not true!! its all lies!!! Jason was disgusted with how much stuff we got them, but in truth, ruby was loving it. 
Ezra didnt want to open presents because he doesnt know how----he is still too young. 
but ruby loved everything she got, was grateful and excited. and jason made the kids stop opening presents because he personally felt that they had enough. and admittedly, they did have enough. 

there are at least  two good legitimate reasons to buy your kids lots of presents at christmas.

 the number one reason for me is because it is so magical. and they have lots of interesting things to do that day. 
the second reason is because it gives me an excuse to throw out all the old stuff. 

the other reasons for getting lots of stuff on christmas: 
-everything is on sale and readily in your face when you go shopping. 
its easier to buy toys at this time of year than other times.
--its fun
--why wouldnt you want lots of entertainment for your kids? its better than tv!!!

it shouldnt be such a mystery----and it shouldnt seem so selfish to all of you old humbugs out there. 
its fun for the parents, its fun for the kids. 
when picking which party you want to go to----dont you always pick the one that will provide the most fun? 
you dont want to go to a party that is unexciting. 

i know, its  a lame analogy, but that is my defense. 
so there. 
--Jill


On Dec 29, 2007, at 1:55 PM, Errol Bagley wrote:

Thank you--Thank you-- Thank you for my large flat screen monitor.  It is 30% larger to look  at and takes 80% less desk space.
 
We are still enjoying the holiday season with family and grandchildren. Our Pine house has been used regularly with a little snow still under the trees and fires in both fireplaces.
 
From what I witnessed and what was reported my pre-Christmas suggestion of several meaningfull gifts to children was universally ignored. Elaine has ignored it for forty years so my expectations were not really high on this one. I will say Sam exibited the same excitment on gift twelve  as he did on gift one. Jason reported that his children lost interest after a while and had to be encoraged to came back and finish opening thier presents. I'm thinking of commissioning a study on parents to see if we can figure out what the hell is wrong with them on this Christmas thing.
 
That aside, we are most gratefull for all of our children and grandchidren and the peace and prosperity that we live in. Sometime people ask me how I am doing and I often reply  " Better than I deserve"
 
Love Dad.





--
Kara Bagley
Master Maitre 'd
Chef Brad Events
480.452.9230

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